Concernage

[Virax]

I have been wrestling with an idea, a thought. A feeling, if you will. I have been wrestling with it and have finally come to terms with it. I can now say it out loud, give the thought life and face it full on and the consequences that go with it.

Outland sucks. There; I said it.

What has it been now? A year since it came out? I was in the desert when it came out (hi, Tului!) so I was really far behind everyone else. I got back and dusted off my 60s and there were already a ton of 70s loose. I tooled around and checked things out. I tried some quests, some of the new things, so on and so forth.

I just really don't like it. Hear me out. We will get to that whole "you haven't given it a chance yet" thing you are saying in a little bit.

Maybe I am an old fogie. Maybe I am obtuse. Stodgy. Whatever. I don't know. But I do have certain expectations of some things. The sun should rise in the east, water should be wet and there should be NO damned aliens in my RPG.

What we are talking about is not unlike the difference between the English approach to psychedelia in the 60s and the American approach to psychedelia in the 60s. Compare the two different types of music at the time. In English music we can find tales that are nothing less than trips back through childhood. Songs about games and gnomes and fairytale places. Sure, there was as much sex, drugs and liberation in English music as there was in American music at the time, but one would have to search a long, long time time find an American psychedelic band singing a song about a "gnome named Grimble Grumble". Anyway.

That is perhaps what appeals to me about some fantasy and RPG stuff. The elements are elements that we had in our childhood; themes common to us all. Goblins, gnomes, dwarfes, elves, magic, dragons? All there. Tucked away in every nook and cranny of childhood tales, nursery rhymes and bedtime stories. King Arthur, the Brothers Grim, even go back as far as Aesop. They are all there. Playing games like this bring to me that warm nostalgia that as I get older seems so much more important, so much more profound to me. I start up the game and I see the world that I imagined in my young readings of Tolkien, Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms and all the other Gygax' contemporaries. I see the images that were made familiar to me 20 years ago.

What the hell is a draenei?

These soulless freaks of fiction cause me to cringe and withdraw as if I am in the presence of a brown recluse spider. These aliens do not exist anywhere in my childhood readings and musings. They don't appear in the revered D&D, AD&D, and AD&D 2nd Edition worlds. (I lost track after 2nd ed.) Guns? Helicopters? Pimp clothing?Giant robots? Are you serious? What is coming in the next expansion? Hondas, cell phones and light sabers?

Even the terrain annoys me. In the previous edition, the world looked not wholly unlike our own. It felt, like the Tolkien books felt, that the fantasy world could have easily been our world, perhaps in some distant past. Or perhaps it could have been a nearby solar system that evolved both like us and not like us. I remember seeing the different zones when I first came to WoW and thinking them either lovely or unpleasant as the case may have been, but they at the same time reminded me of the different places I have visited as I have travelled the world. The plains of Montana, hills of Tennessee, the Great Smokey Mountains of North Carolina, the swamps of Georgia, South Carolina and Florida, the snow for miles and miles in Canada, the deserts of Kuwait, Saudi, Qatar, Egypt and the chaos and destruction of Iraq, Afghanistan, Kyrgyzstan. I felt a comfortable and familiar feeling as I tromped all over the lands.

Anyone see a giant floating island in their neighborhood? Me neither. Like everyone else, I think Zangarmarsh is lovely to look at it, but it is still as alien as it can be.

The familiarity of memory and childhood is lost to me in the Outland. It is just as alien to me as the draenei are alien to good taste. When I play a fantasy RPG, especially one built on the premise of "Orcs vrs Humans", I find myself put out at seeing a robotic chicken. It simply should not be there.

(Yes, I know the robot chickens were before TBC. Don't ruin my story, damn it.)

Maybe I have not given it much of a chance. Maybe. My highest toon is only 67 after all. I don't know. I do know that if I wanted to fight robots and aliens, I would go play Star Wars Universe.

I know it is anachronistic, I know I am just resisting the future and evolution. I know that this is all about marketing and appealing to as broad of a market base as you can. I know that. I know all of that, but cannot stop myself from thinking....give me my AD&D back.

[Aitana]

Interesting. I wonder if you aren't the only one to have such concerns. I have heard that the art for Frozen Throne is like the art for Azeroth, not Outland.

I still don't like the captured Naaru or the Draenai for much the same reasons you list.

[Redflare]

As much as I hate to comment on this, I've been playing the game long enough to get slightly agitated when people call it the wrong name. , It's Star Wars "Galaxies". I played it for at least two to three years until they decided to make it easy to become a Jedi. I'd been doing the looooooooooooooooooooooooong quest line to achieve the rank of Jedi, get my saber, and all that goodness, and then they update it so you can start out as a Jedi. That just ruined the gaming experience all together. Besides, Warcraft is a WHOLE lot more fun in my opinion. ((IT IS NOT IMO! *Netspeak hater*)) Sure I miss the dogfights in space, the robotic legs from the memorable capture by Space Pirates, and encountering Darth Vader on Naboo, but Warcraft has more people to develop storylines with, and is just more fun all around. ((I know this has nothing to do with the topic at hand, but hey, it's a forum! ))

[Virax]

No offense. I never played Star Wars since I only heard about it after the whole Jedi fiasco and people seemed pretty angry about it, so I never checked it out. I was on Ultima for 7 years before coming to WoW.

I'll leave my Star Wars mistake in there so people will no what you are referring to. I'll make sure to get it right if it pops up in my next diatribe.

[Breiten]

I dunno Virax. You could be onto something. I hated outlands for a long long time. I didn't slaver for TBC, but I had a snow day from work so I wandered into the cold and ame home with it. I still haven't level Breiten to 70. I think what you may actually be seeing is a shift from worldplay and levelling to endgame participation. It's a matter of who you're playing with, not what you're playing.

I've always been an organizer type, and until I was back in Nyx with people I liked working towards group goals, I couldn't stomach outlands.

Go figure.

Breitan

[Baelspar]

Okay, so where in the past did you see Zangermarsh? It reminds me of Journey to the Center of the Earth.

The Draeni have face tentacles like mind-flayers. They just crashed here from a different plane.

As for the D&D base, it all depends on where you go with it. You head to Krynn, and you find gnomes building all sorts of technological things. The least of which was a lava gun. Ravenloft has it's share of evil clockwork gizmos and contraptions. Spelljammer has ships that fly through space. With Planescape, well the possibilities are endless, and that includes an entire plane of steam and gear tech.

Maybe it was just the groups that I gamed with, but staying in the core setting wasn't always the best experience. To mix things up, we would find ourselves sent to other worlds. I think that kind of play is hard to resist.

That's just my two bits.

[Voltaere]

Another good topic and perceptive observations : )

Here is my 2 cents for what its worth. Outlands does feel alien. It feels inconsitent with Azeroth. Its supposed to, hence the name, Outlands. This is good and bad - it represents an entirely different take on blizzard 'lore' and the way its stories are told. Between time travel, superpowered aliens, and intergalactic demons, the feel is very different from our classic conceptions of medieval fantasy. I am looking forward to the Lich King and the return to more classic stylings. BC did a great job with the BE stylings (Silvermoon city, Deathholme), but Draenei and Outlands are a stretch for me as well.

Regarding gnomes: I dont have any trouble with gnomes using technology to make effects like 'magic'. I am rather fond of the Steampunk theme when its done right. I didnt care for Toshley's station with them using ray guns and the like - but I like the steampunk style gadgets, like the Flying Machine or the Deep Dive Helmet (and even the clockwork robot chickens). I must admit, i am a fan when its done right.

Regarding Draenei, I agree. They have zero appeal to me. There is no precedent or traditional theme that I connect with. I would have liked to seen fallen demons instead - rejected by their masters. The Horde did really well imo by gaining a fairie type race to play so you arent stuck with a 'monster' type for all your toons. On the other hand, the Alliance are all fair type races, they could really use a 'monster' race and Draenei REALLY doesnt cut it.

I am looking forward to Lich King and the return to some more familiar themes.

Let me throw a question out there too: What sort of races would be appropriate for future expansions? I kind of liked the Arrokoa (like the Skexies from Dark Crystal) and would love to make a toon of one. I think some sorty of faerie/pixie race would be fun too - Blizz has barely even touched that part of lore (I would love to see it done like Sandman comic). Other ideas?

[Dhaarga]

Different genres and such. WoW has always been Medieval Fantasy meets SteamPunk since WC2 at least (Gyrocopters, Goblin Shredders, etc).

Magepunk aspects have been introduced with TBC. It is not classic fantasy (high or normal) that is for sure and may not be everyone's thing. I know many people don't like one or the other but many do as well.

For example, I do like the Eberron D&D setting which is a "swashbucking dark fantasy with a steam/magepunk spin". It has elemental powered locomotives, elemental airships, floating fortresses, street lanterns powered by magical light, dual wand wielding specialists, living golem entities (akin to sentient robots), telecommunication devices (there is a magical cellphone/two-way radio in there), portable crystals which act like spellbooks (PDAs for the mage), Golem/Elemental implants (Cyborg equivalent), etc. However, it all fits very nicely together and is self-consistent.

So yeah, I know it is kinda a bummer for a lot of people but at least Northrend will be classic high fantasy. So look forward to that. Till that endure I suppose. However if you want to find magically lower areas: Zangarmarsh, Nagrand, Bladesedge and Terokkar are magically more classic. Hellfire (quite), and Netherstorm (very) are scifi-ish. I think SMV is also classic but don't remember much of it since I was there for like 10 mins. :P

[Dhaarga]

And wanted to add (since I am trying to get people addicted to it), watch this video on youtube. It seems to be very Northrend-ish to me.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6UztEfwHt14