Mind Vision... Where does it end ?

[Asarelah]

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=4486nSwanthula nPost Subject: The Hearthstone and you!nPost Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:52 am n

Limitations: The stones must be recharged periodically to ensure proper utility. The stones do not allow any other sense to be used through them. You cannot touch or smell anything through the stone. You also can not transmit your thoughts over the stone.

nnviewtopic.php?f=13&t=5879nWarburn nPost Subject: Warburn's ComanPost Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 6:45 pmnn

Instantly she summoned up a Mind Vision and sent it reeling through the stone toward the source of the disturbance, seeking answers to the troubling sending.nnAzim!! came her sharp outcry as she tried to touch the stolid warrior's mind, but failed.nnSomething was blocking the contact, and try as hard as she could, there was no pushing through it. But she could sense that Azim stood alone and was surrounded by a pack of raging, angry snarling maws, snapping at him as he fought. Their only intent that Azim be their next meal...nnStriving to "see" more, she continued to "push" in to Azim's explosive battle fury, and in doing so, detected another flavor in the background... only a hint...

nnI had asked before, and my question about this was under investigation.... But it slipped through the cracks and I forgot to follow up....nn1. Asarelah can cast Mind Vision and has done so over the hearthstone in many different RP scenarios she has been involved in on the forums and in game.n2. She is an "intuitive responder" and while I do NOT claim to be able to read minds, EVER, I do stand on Lah's innate ability to "guess" or sense things intuitively based on her intimate caring and concern for all members of the Tribe. Her "caregiving" is extra-ordinary in all her interactions.n3. The way I used the Mind Vision ability in the above scenario is a fair example of the way I frequently have used it to sense or "see" more than what is apparent coming through the hearth stone.nnThere has been suggestion (I do not want to say complaint, for that is not precisely correct) that I am mis-using the stone.nnHere is my question:nnBased on Asarelah's personal skill of the Mind Vision ability, and her personal intimate feelings of intense care for the Tribe combined with her intuitive knowledge of what is up with each person, is this a proper application of how that spell might be used by her in conjunction with the hearth stone ??nnEDIT:nAnd Yes, I saw when I reviewed the Hearthstone and You that I could not "smell" the rotting Hyena's breaths... I will also edit that when I see the final answer to my question, if I need to edit the rest of that particular scenario...nnI could reasonably "hear them howling" through the stone, I would presume - as that is what Azim would be hearing at the time ?nnHmmm.... interesting hypothesis...nnIF I am connected by Mind Vision, even briefly to Azim, could I not also "smell" what he was "smelling" in his / my head ???nnThe "smell" would not BE in my nostrils, but the thought of it WOULD be in my mind..... Right ???

[Eione]

I've put a reply of sorts up on the Hearthstone and You thread, I'll ask Blood if he can come on down and chat about what he wants to do with it. He had been talking about making some changes or refreshing guildmates on how it all works.

[Shixin]

Lah, the more I thought about this, the more I felt that it was YOUR RP, you can control your spell effects how you want.nnThe only fine line I can see here is when your spell affects another player character. In almost every case it's going to be considered god-modding another character's feeling/thoughts/actions. The only way to avoid god-modding is to limit your affect to non-player characters. Or, you can desribe your intent to perform an action to a player character (in this case, reaching out with your Mind Vision in an attempt to "see" through Azim's eyes) and let the player determine whether you are successful, what you might see, hear, feel, etc.

[Aitana]

Mind Vision is a spell that literally can reach all the way across Azeroth and Outland as it jumps from person to person. If she can cast it at all, she can 'see' through the person of the person she cast it on. What the spell typically does not allow in game is anything beyond vision. There are two questions.n

1. Does it allow the person to hear or transmit thoughts?
n
2. Can it be cast across a hearthstone?

[Eione]

From sight one could deduce probably scent based upon personal memory. Eg: Lah's been to Cenarion Hold in Zangarmarsh, so she remembers the thick scent of the large mushrooms and the faint hint of rotting vegetation.nnGrethem is correct in saying it is God-moding to reach out and contact Azim's mind (unless you got prior consent for the RP story). Azim should have the option of refusing or allowing the spell.nn*I'm fairly new with RP rules.

[Asarelah]

Grethem is correct in saying it is God-moding to reach out and contact Azim's mind (unless you got prior consent for the RP story). Azim should have the option of refusing or allowing the spell.

nnI do not normally take liberties with any other person without advance preparation and consent.nnHowever, in the case of Warburn or Aitana, we frequently take liberties with each other in advance - since we are all three so "in tune" with each other - when the Writer's Muse strikes us, but we ALWAYS edit if what we have written does not strike the fancy of the other.nnIf I can not reach Warby or Aitana in advance, I always place a disclaimer at the bottom of any text I might be god-modding in open RP, or speak to the other party privately, to make sure they are good with what ever direction I am going. As you can see here....nnviewtopic.php?f=13&t=5879nAsarelah nPost Subject: Re: Warburn's ComanPost Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:52 amnn

(( Warburn, please edit this in any way you see fit, if I have not taken it the proper direction you wished to go. Or delete it all together if this was not Open RP. Thankee for starting this - I was hoping you would after the suggestion was made to "find" you. With your permission, I would like to broadcast for participation from the Tribe if this IS Open RP. What FUN !!!! ))

[Eione]

I had noticed that Lah. Feel free to God-mode me anytime *grins*

[Shixin]

I have thoroughly researched this, and sadly, there is just not much in Warcraft lore about either Mind Vision -or- the Hearthstone. According to Warcraft canon, the hearthstone is ONLY used as an instant teleport device (and apparently is artifact-level rare). Anything else is open to our own interpretation.nnHere is the most recent (and only, that I could find) mention of the hearthstone in WoW lore.nn

The major's eyes verified Broll's concern. "The general sent for reinforcements when first the mists began to take our men. He sent me to procure them. Before I could return, the mist covered the valley..."nn"Damned fool here almost rode into it even then," Varian added without any anger. "But Mattingly knew we needed every man and ordered his just-gathered forces back here..." To the major, the lord of Stormwind said, "You know where the night elf ambassador lived--lives. I need someone trusting but wary enough to get them there... though I've not been told exactly why."nnTyrande did not hesitate. "She has a hearthstone."nnVarian's eyes were not the only ones to widen. Broll also knew of what the high priestess spoke, though even he himself had only twice seen one of the artifacts. A hearthstone was a palm-sized crystal, oval in shape, that was bound by arcane magic to not only its bearer, but a particular place. Most often, they were tied to great locations, such as, apparently in this case, Darnassus. Distance did not matter.nn"I'd thought them only legend," Varian remarked warily. "Things heard only in stories concerning magi... or elves."nn"Or elves," the high priestess repeated with a brief, dour smile.nn"Interesting that your ambassador should have one."nn"But good for us now, perhaps," Tyrande calmly responded."

from Stormrage - R. KnaaknnNow. Having said that, let me say this. And sorry in advance for the Trek-geekout; I am a huge admirer of the empire that Roddenberry built.nnIn the early days of the Star Trek TV show development, Gene Roddenberry (in his incredible wisdom as an entertainer) needed a plot function to keep the story moving. You see, he knew that space was just too vast for a spaceship to travel from one inhabited planet to another inside the time alloted for a one-hour television show. Hence, the concept known now as "warp drive" was born.nnIn the same vein, we can make the hearthstone do what we need it to do. BUT WE MUST USE CAUTION! Granting too much power to a device like this can cause serious god-modding. Even Roddenberry understood that warp drive was too powerful, in and of itself. Therefore, he made it unreliable; often breaking down and leaving the crew stranded was one of his favorites checks to the power of near-instant space travel. Case in point was the creature known as "Q" from ST:TNG. A god-like being who could instantly appear when and where he wanted to anywhere in the universe. Just this character's existance later in the ST lore caused many heated debates and led many hardcore Trek fans to walk away from the ST:TNG show altogether.

[Asarelah]

This is copied from viewtopic.php?f=50&t=4486&p=37559#p37559, where there is additional discussion about this topic.nnn

3. The Mind Vision. Tricky tricky. The spell allows a priest to see through a “touched” minds eyes. Simply it’s not much different from the hearthstone as we use it. It’s line of sight so if someone conceals their stone, Mind Vision would be impossible, imo. Also, as in the spells description, it cannot reach into instances or across continents. That being said, I hold the opinion it could in fact be used through the stone. We just need to be careful adding extra sensory stuff to the spell, smells and such. On a separate note, I kind of think Lah’s idea of her character having a bit of empathic abilities with tribe members is intriguing. It certainly fits with her characters devotion to the people. I think it brings an interesting element to Oracle Truehearts nature. I’d walk the line carefully though and be clear in your emoting about any empathic connection with tribesman in tandem with the use of Mind Vision because other (maybe those less dexterous with RP) priests may get confused and think that the empathy is a reflection of the spell and not a nuance of Lah’s character.

nnThankee for responding to this. If this is acceptable, I won't have to backtrack and edit to much to get it right.nnIF you ever see me "use" the hearthstone improperly please please please correct me. I would appreciate it greatly. As you said, we need to set proper examples. And I WILL be careful with it.nnOn another note, not quite correct on the attributes of Mind Vision. Once it is cast it DOES travel wherever the "wearer" goes, whether across continents or in to dungeons - until the Priest drops the casting.

nnI have edited the introduction to the "Warburn's Coma" scenario. Does this better suit the capabilities of the stone, and intuitive response that Lah would automatically make?nn

The braying of vicious hounds on the attack ripped across Asarelah's perception, emanating from the hearthstone. She could very nearly smell the reeking of rotted meat and decayed flesh, from their breaths, so close was the assault of the jackals upon whom witnessed it, broadcasting.....nnHyena's... What the... was her immediate thought.

[Eione]

(( I can not do it Asarelah, we need more dilithium crystals!))nnOoh I like that, very poetic and stuff.